Curse

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 22, 2005, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Ah, just tested this in CA and a little TA, not sure how well it'd go in 8v8 but I'm hoping it'd stand through...

This is an anti-casting switchblade build that can deal with most situations save one. [mass damage]. It can't heal itself well at all so be prepared.

10+1+1 Domination
9+1 Inspiration
7+1 Fast Casting
10 Curses

Arcane Echo
Power Block {E}
Shame
Guilt
Spirit of Failure
Plague Touch
Enfeeble
Parasitic Bond

Ok. At first it just looks like a smattering of shlop. [ok, maybe it is. lol] But the idea here is to shut out 2-3 casters and 2-3 non-casters simultaneously. Trick is to know what's on the enemy team. [not hard if you mash your tab key] If the enemy is non-caster heavy. [lots of warriors & rangers] you'll want to Arcane Echo your Spirit of Failure. Be ready to Power Block any surprise Hexes the non-casters may be casting and spam Guilt / Shame on enemy healers. They may use Pacifism or some other offensive skill you're not aware of so be awake.

If the enemy is caster heavy, you have only one option. Arcane Echo Power Block...

I turned off 2 casters back to back with this setup. [orison of healing power blocked = dead monk] The other one was an ele trying to do meteor. Fun stuff. Upon casting ANY of the hexes. This is a hex heavy build so a cheap, fast recycle, fast casting win-win hex was needed. In for the rescue comes Parastic bond. If they remove it, you get healed. If they don't, you do a splash of tiny armor ignoring damage to build up for your teammate's DoT if they're using any.

In the standard role of a mesmer, this build really can't kill anything. As you can see from all the above skills. What you're supposed to do is 'kill' your enemies by removing their ability to fight from the game.

The incoming crippling shots, conc. shots, sever arteries, etc. will be on you about 90% of the time so I discovered that Plague Sending is a Godsend for any N secondary.

Since it's ability to self-heal is so conditionary [enemy must wait, die, or remove the para bond], it's focus is to stay alive by turning off your foe's ability to do anything.

Some counters involve double teaming. [can't powerblock in 2 directions sadly... lol] Massive damage from a warrior isn't too worrisome since SoF and Enfeeble negate his damage to single digits or none altogether. Hex removal isn't an issue if you Power Block the hex kill or use guilt on it.

What do you think? ^_^

Schorny · Oct 22, 2005, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

What do you think?

Try to do one thing and do it right.

At the moment you can't shutdown one target. You just (besides Power Block) are a minor annoyance to everyone. Try to be total devastating threat to someone - that is much better.

smurfhunter · Oct 23, 2005, 12:32 AM // 00:32

why 10 in curses if all you do is enfeeble and pbond?

and why all the inspiration if you dont take any of the staple emanagement like power drain or drain enchantment? spirit of failure is good if you use other things that make them miss. i saw someone use that with spitefull spirit for total warrior hate...

Manfred · Oct 23, 2005, 01:09 AM // 01:09

My fav use of the sof was a m/n with arcane echo AND echo, putting spirit of failure and price of failure on 2 warriors the entire game. 40-ish miss rate for 30 seconds, with both hp penalty and your e-gain.

clonmac · Oct 23, 2005, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manfred

My fav use of the sof was a m/n with arcane echo AND echo, putting spirit of failure and price of failure on 2 warriors the entire game. 40-ish miss rate for 30 seconds, with both hp penalty and your e-gain.

You don't need the echo's to keep the Failure spells on two warriors simultaneously. They recharge quick enough for you to be able to hex both warriors with both spells constantly without echo'ing.

Neo-LD · Oct 23, 2005, 01:36 AM // 01:36

power block is very high risk high reward. for some reason, just cus its high stakes, i tned to miss with it more XD. worst part is you dont have any way to help it out, which means that you are generally stuck trying to jump fireballs and lightning orbs. not that thats a totally bad thing, but power blocking a monk with 1/4s casts is... hard.

Man With No Name · Oct 23, 2005, 02:28 AM // 02:28

I rather like Power Block - it's not a hex and the effect can't be removed.

Disabling a Monk's skills for up to 16 seconds - speaks for itself. Although like the above people said it's the disabling that's the tricky part. Miss a spell and it seems like an eternity until you get a 2nd shot

Have to get memorising those casting times and don't make the mistake of Power Blocking a non-attribute spell :P

Bump a few points into Illusion for Conundrum and it makes hitting those 1 second spells easier.

Slightly less effective against a Protection monk -- try catching stuff like Aegis, Guardian and so on...

I think this build could work with some refinement - it's a decent mix of caster-hate and warrior-hate. Going full on Warrior hate in Arena's is often overkill IMO, especially when something like SoF, Enfeeble and SI take a Warrior out of the fight.

Tagging a few Warrior disabling skills and using the other 5 or so slots for anti-caster skills doesn't seem like a bad idea -- especially with the profound effect of Power Block.

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 23, 2005, 06:45 AM // 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

Try to do one thing and do it right.

At the moment you can't shutdown one target. You just (besides Power Block) are a minor annoyance to everyone. Try to be total devastating threat to someone - that is much better.

Try to do one thing? And get countered and hacked to bits... Minor annoyance? Ok, on one hand, we have weak warriors/rangers who are missing and when they hit, they hit for blah damage... And the cover hex helps as a self-heal. You may be saying "whoopity do" but they're obviously NOT in a good position to hurt my team at that point. Are they?

Other: I can shut out 2 people's majority of their skill bars or one person's entire skill bar [unless they invested into a jillion stats] using the Arcane Power Block combo. What's more, I use 2 hexes that can shut out casters for 9 seconds or if they cast through, I gain energy. Energy used to keep the non casters out of the game and the casters missed a spell. [missing one spell is enough to die. everyone should know that...]

Annoyance? My build makes it so you can't do anything. If you're thinking mesmer has to do damage, you obviously didn't get the memo.

I know they can, but everyone and their mother worked out dmg builds with a mesmer. [frag anyone?]

Making a mesmer that can hinder 4+ people at once is NOT a bad move.

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 23, 2005, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man With No Name

I rather like Power Block - it's not a hex and the effect can't be removed.

Disabling a Monk's skills for up to 16 seconds - speaks for itself. Although like the above people said it's the disabling that's the tricky part. Miss a spell and it seems like an eternity until you get a 2nd shot

Have to get memorising those casting times and don't make the mistake of Power Blocking a non-attribute spell :P

Bump a few points into Illusion for Conundrum and it makes hitting those 1 second spells easier.

Slightly less effective against a Protection monk -- try catching stuff like Aegis, Guardian and so on...

I think this build could work with some refinement - it's a decent mix of caster-hate and warrior-hate. Going full on Warrior hate in Arena's is often overkill IMO, especially when something like SoF, Enfeeble and SI take a Warrior out of the fight.

Tagging a few Warrior disabling skills and using the other 5 or so slots for anti-caster skills doesn't seem like a bad idea -- especially with the profound effect of Power Block.

You seem to be catching onto the idea. You don't need many skills to shut out a non-caster. the 2 core skills most necros use are just faintheartedness + enfeeble, or in 8v8, Shadow of Fear + enfeebling blood. I used the mesmer's anti-warrior skills to keep my energy high. What's that energy for? Feeding the 10s. recycle times of the SoF's and using the anti-caster stuff when necessary.

The Arcane Echo works like a charm in this build. Scanning the enemy team, picking your anti-X skill, and then running with it.

Just did 13 wins in a pug in CA. Quite satisfying. Our monk was old school but we did quite well. Being able to hinder the enemy team using a combination of hexes and conditions is efficiency to the higher degree. [<3 plague touch. I got bleeding/poisoned so much that I managed to cover the enemy team with it. joy!]

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 23, 2005, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

why 10 in curses if all you do is enfeeble and pbond?

and why all the inspiration if you dont take any of the staple emanagement like power drain or drain enchantment? spirit of failure is good if you use other things that make them miss. i saw someone use that with spitefull spirit for total warrior hate...

Other things that cause them to miss don't matter. I'm casting SoF on 2+ non-casters. That's double the energy input. 'nuff said. I've tested this and they're NOT going to just stand there and wait 30s. for the hex to wear off. Quite amusing really.

The 2 hexes: Shame/Guilt bring me a hefty amount of energy at the cost of the enemy's spell. What's it for? More Parabond and SoF love... ^_^

That inspiration maybe high, but also, why 8 tactics for Fear Me!!? Cause it's useful. SoF is very useful if you can cast it on two foes. No doubt about it.

rii · Oct 23, 2005, 08:48 AM // 08:48

shame/guilt cost 10 and steal 12.... unless im wrong thats not hefty.. its just free shutdown.

Schorny · Oct 23, 2005, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Try to do one thing? And get countered and hacked to bits...

That has nothing to do with each other.

Quote:

Minor annoyance? Ok, on one hand, we have weak warriors/rangers who are missing and when they hit, they hit for blah damage... And the cover hex helps as a self-heal. You may be saying "whoopity do" but they're obviously NOT in a good position to hurt my team at that point. Are they?

Come on - you are totally ignoring the fact that the enemy can also do things. As I said (please try to read my posts before answering) Power Block is your best choice - there is nothing wrong with it -> but your other skills are bad choosen.

A spirit of Failure will harm only bad teams (it may work in CA but tell me a build that does not work there) and every team that has just the slightest idea of what they do it will get removed pretty quickly. And even if not - SoF alone is not a total warrior hate... Enfeeble is much better - but conditions are removed nealry instantly...

Shame and Guilt are good - but you are just a slight annoyance with them. They are not that good if they are alone. You can't shutdown a monk or a caster or a warrior. All you can do is power block them (which is fine) but why not concentrate on one thing. atm besides power block a good team will just laugh at your attempts. Guilt for example - if not removed the ele just waits the few seconds. An ele can easily wait - he just regens energy. So guilt alone is useless. Shame is a bit better, because not every monk can wait a few seconds until he starts healing. So if you can coordinate a spike it may be good. But in CA I wouldn't care about Shame - i'll just wait. Everyone got selfheals so for few seconds they can keep themselfs alive.

And no res sig serioulsy harms your team.

Quote:

Annoyance? My build makes it so you can't do anything. If you're thinking mesmer has to do damage, you obviously didn't get the memo.

Power Block is good but the other skills are not.

Quote:

I know they can, but everyone and their mother worked out dmg builds with a mesmer. [frag anyone?]

I never said anything about damage. If you would care to rad my post, I said you can't shutdown anyone (besides powwerblock).

Quote:

Making a mesmer that can hinder 4+ people at once is NOT a bad move.

But you can't.
It may work in CA - but come one, in CA I normally kill people with Symbol of Wrath and Shield of Judgement - most people there are too stupid for TA or just testing a build.

Why do you ask for feedback if you react that harshly on critic?

You have posted now many builds - none of them got good feedback, right? Doesn't that make you start to think...?

@rii:
how stupid most one be to cast with Shame/Guilt on him?

smurfhunter · Oct 23, 2005, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

shame/guilt cost 10 and steal 12.... unless im wrong thats not hefty.. its just free shutdown.

theres also a 'hefty' recharge associated with these... i only take guilt/shame on a mesmer if i know im going to be waiting for more energy/recharge on my skills and i need a way of shutting them down temporarily while my stuff recharges.

no one really casts through them, but its great when they dont pay attention and do cast through it.

rii · Oct 23, 2005, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Use them with mantra of recovery and laugh a bit more. tbh, id rather they stood there and waited for it to run out in that situation, since the downtime is only 6s....

twicky_kid · Oct 23, 2005, 06:43 PM // 18:43

here's a better list for you

power block (E)
diversion
backfire
price of failure
arcane conundrom
drain enchantment
shadow of fear
res sig

now you can be a real pain in the ass. backfire one monk. AC the other one and wait for the power block. go back to other monk diversion. whola you just shut down 2 monks for about 15+ seconds.

you don't need condition removal you monk should be able to take care of that. weakness is useless will be removed in seconds while shaow of fear can screw a group of warriors and harder to remove. since warriors are slowed you monk should be able to heal you easily.

Manfred · Oct 23, 2005, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Well, but in 4v4 monks are dumb.
and this does seem to be a 4v4 build, since it's actually feasible to shut down the entire enmy team in 4v4.

With more people, it really is more effective to have a speciality.

And yeah, sof triggers with every miss, not just those caused by it.

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 24, 2005, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

Come on - you are totally ignoring the fact that the enemy can also do things. As I said (please try to read my posts before answering) Power Block is your best choice - there is nothing wrong with it -> but your other skills are bad choosen.

A spirit of Failure will harm only bad teams (it may work in CA but tell me a build that does not work there) and every team that has just the slightest idea of what they do it will get removed pretty quickly. And even if not - SoF alone is not a total warrior hate... Enfeeble is much better - but conditions are removed nealry instantly...

Shame and Guilt are good - but you are just a slight annoyance with them. They are not that good if they are alone. You can't shutdown a monk or a caster or a warrior. All you can do is power block them (which is fine) but why not concentrate on one thing. atm besides power block a good team will just laugh at your attempts. Guilt for example - if not removed the ele just waits the few seconds. An ele can easily wait - he just regens energy. So guilt alone is useless. Shame is a bit better, because not every monk can wait a few seconds until he starts healing. So if you can coordinate a spike it may be good. But in CA I wouldn't care about Shame - i'll just wait. Everyone got selfheals so for few seconds they can keep themselfs alive.

And no res sig serioulsy harms your team.

Power Block is good but the other skills are not.

I never said anything about damage. If you would care to rad my post, I said you can't shutdown anyone (besides powwerblock).

It may work in CA - but come one, in CA I normally kill people with Symbol of Wrath and Shield of Judgement - most people there are too stupid for TA or just testing a build.

Why do you ask for feedback if you react that harshly on critic?

You have posted now many builds - none of them got good feedback, right? Doesn't that make you start to think...?

@rii:
how stupid most one be to cast with Shame/Guilt on him?

Well. I've read your post and you're missing my point. Everything you mentioned are counters. I can do that too. Not hard.

Any hex can get removed quickly, what's your point?

The ele waits a few seconds? That's A LOT of free time my monk DOESN'T need to heal damage away. Making someone wait a few precious seconds [or casting giving me energy] is win-win. Few seconds is enough for my team to save energy healing. Ele does no damage, I don't need healing.

I've tried res sig as a mesmer. Everyone's targetting me and I get interrupted at the drop of a hat. Especially when they see the res sig (which isn't affected by my fast casting) I don't like res sigs on myself because of this. I know it's good to have even though it gets interrupted but I'd rather disrupt them first...

I'm not reacting harshly on critic. I'm critiquing your critic. I'm allowed to say I like/don't like what you're saying. And you're allowed the same. Back off...

I've posted tons of builds and have recieved MANY good questions asking me for tips and tricks. Maybe YOU should be the one to think... How many pms have YOU recieved asking for help?

edit**

oh, before I forget, to efficiently shut down a non-caster you need only 2 skills. If you need more than that... uh...

YOUUU SSSUUUUCCKK!!!

JYX · Oct 24, 2005, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Well. I've read your post and you're missing my point. Everything you mentioned are counters. I can do that too. Not hard.

There goes the easy argument again. Don't make me whip out the IW or Nature's Renewal analogy again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Any hex can get removed quickly, what's your point?

Point being if you chuck in enough of them, and can put them out at a decent pace, then removing them is just going to be more hassle than not. You there have 2 very long recharge hexes, one cover hex and one piece of energy management.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

I've tried res sig as a mesmer. Everyone's targetting me and I get interrupted at the drop of a hat. Especially when they see the res sig (which isn't affected by my fast casting) I don't like res sigs on myself because of this. I know it's good to have even though it gets interrupted but I'd rather disrupt them first...

I'm more worried that you'd take smite hex over rez sig on a warrior. Or holy strike for that matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

I've posted tons of builds and have recieved MANY good questions asking me for tips and tricks. Maybe YOU should be the one to think... How many pms have YOU recieved asking for help?

To be fair. Half the "experimental" posts you dish out are bound to attract a scrubby following. Some people just can't get over the idea that certain skills blow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

oh, before I forget, to efficiently shut down a non-caster you need only 2 skills. If you need more than that... uh...

YOUUU SSSUUUUCCKK!!!

now thats just not true

rii · Oct 24, 2005, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

I've posted tons of builds and have recieved MANY good questions asking me for tips and tricks. Maybe YOU should be the one to think... How many pms have YOU recieved asking for help?

edit**

oh, before I forget, to efficiently shut down a non-caster you need only 2 skills. If you need more than that... uh...

YOUUU SSSUUUUCCKK!!!

Point 1: Quantity is not quality, so just stop right there.

You know why you get loads of pm's?
Cause you spend all day revolutionising the face of the meta game by replacing disrupting chop with fear me! and then posting long winded essays on the subject, or posting the same build with one skill taken out and another one put in (i concede you know every wa/n build in the game via sheer quantity - but that doesnt make you worthy of making comments like the above). Whether it was sarcasm or not it still grinds over my nerves and is not required.

The builds are all so similar I occasionally get annoyed that you might simply be trying to flood the forums with stuff out of the textbook. People who then dont know the textbook ask for help, as is the way of nature, they ask you cause youve got 'Don Quixote' under your name and post a lot of common sense. This is a rampant flame and im sorry but the above quote shows a level of arrogance that should be reserved for actual gosus, or at best noone.

As for point 2, against most people in the current meta-game youll need a variety of hexes and a cover. 2 is minimum.... images for warriors, shackles for rangers, then usually you want shadow or faint, then parasitic and so on for the cover. You could shutdown a warrior with 2, but in a meta game that has large amounts of hex stackers, 2 isnt going to go the distance. In optimum, you want to force a convert onto them and then recast 10s later... or have them looking at a completely ineffective character. 2 might do that, but its not going to force anyones hand, and they wont be out of the game enough for my personal defense heavy liking.

Ill now sarcastically repeat:

sorry, but can it please... be constructive not arrogant, and 'you suck' is childish and completly unneccesarry.

smurfhunter · Oct 24, 2005, 12:50 PM // 12:50

my experience with powerblock is kinda ishy, but ill post a build i think will work alot better at shutting down both casters and non casters ^^

powerblock
arcane conundrum
conjure phantasm
power leak
drain enchantment
imagined burden
power drain
res sig

then since this is a build im just typing off the top of my head here... my guess is i would space the attributes to about 8-9 inspiration, find the breakpoint for arcane conundrum and put illusion there, and then balance fastcasting and dom based on how long i want power block to last.

theres a build which can 'shutdown' any type of caster, as well as help you kite warriors by using imagined burden.

so... obvious stuff. its arcane conundrum followed by phantasm, then you camp them first with power leak, then power block, then drain enchantment someone to get energy back, or hit power drain. rinse and repeat.

IMO this build is more effective at shutting down casters and non, with emphasis on casters (i mean you are a mesmer, right?) since i never tested this i have no idea how this goes with energy, so maybe you might want to squeeze in cry of frustration only so that you can interupt a spirit or something.

there see, not so hard is it?